On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Pickthall And (the tribes of) A'ad and Thamud! However, they worshiped other deities along with Allah. Its also implausible that a people who would be at the helm of such epic architectural and engineering achievements would not even make mention of it, or at least keep a record of it. Honestly I dont understand the confusion at and all of it has been dealt with above. Possible answer: Their messenger lived before or even during the time of Isa (as), this also the time where this site flourished, but when they denied him, Allah did not destroy them immidiantely. [4] Historian Israel Eph'al questions the plausibility of Sargon's account, as the briefness of Sargon's account seems to be at odds with the fact that such a campaign deep into Arabia would have been one of the longest wars in Assyrian history, and because no mention of plunder is provided. [23] The ninth-century Muslim scholar Ibn Sad believed that the Thamud were the Nabateans. . [27], This article is about the ancient Arabian tribe. where they used to live. The pagan Arabs were acquainted with their existence but nothing more is known about them. You would only make my loss greater. Salam. The Tribes of Arabia (Arabic: ) or Arab tribes (Arabic: ) are the ethnic Arab tribes and clans that originated in the Arabian Peninsula. Ok thanks jazzakkallah but do you think the verse can be in past tense and the verse you quote above in your article 89:9 is it talking about homes on the plains or homes in mountains and the verse makes it sound like they could see these houses in the mountions so it makes it sound like this verse is saying the tombs are thamud dwellings so how do we explain this verse or is it just saying they used to do that like ad used too do pillars in the verse before or is that verse saying as well they could still see those pillars jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you. The hadith reports the prophet (pbuh) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring to the Thamud. [13] Adnanites are believed to be the descendants of Ishmael through Adnan but the traditional Adnanite lineage doesn't match the biblical line exactly. A similar narrative can be found in Jeremiah 49:16 I look forward to your response my dear brother. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. They are aws and athiri in origin with element of arphaxad They lived in houses carved into the surface of the earth. SSH and Password-less communication using SSH, Basics of Cryptography and Digital Signature, The Quranic tribes of 'Aad and Thamud - a historical perspective, Lenin khuda ke huzoor mein: A simplified commentary, Q 7:74 mentions Thamud as building houses out of mountains, while Q 54:31 confirms that they were destroyed by a shriek. The account presented in Surah an-Naml also mentions nine evil people of Thamud who are immediately responsible for God's punishment of their people[Quran27:4851] in a narrative reminiscent of Jewish descriptions of the demise of Sodom. They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert. [2] The Thamud are not specially connected to the Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of Ancient Arabia. [20] The traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham. So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. It would be unsurprising then, to find them in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia. This is an odd conclusion. The Bible Here is the summary of his opinion: ( ) which only proves that al-Hijr was also the land of the Thamud which is not a problem. Numerous rock writings and pictures traditionally attributed to the Thamd have been found on Mount Athlab and throughout central Arabia; though labeled Thamdic, they actually reflect a diverse set of ancient Semitic dialects used by various Arabian tribes. What is the issue here? According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were annihilated either by a thunderbolt or by an earthquake. There is a place called Khyber at Pakistan/Afghanistan border but that is NOT the Khyber of Madina. Sorry for such a late response. Had the Prophet () thought that the rock carved structures in al-Hijr were those of Thamd, he would have pointed them out. 2. As for the wells, studies have shown that the Nabateans were experts in the field of irrigation and a lot of wells was attributed to them. Of course, when they challenged Allah and His Messenger like this, they were just inviting destruction. They were more sophisticated than the Aad. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. What? Instead, they tried to engage Salih in debate. 41.13-18 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir. The story of musa (muses) a.s. _ Magic and Illusi Suhih Muslim _ Book of "End of the World", Who is Musa a.s. (Moses) ? The shout, which is an extremely loud sound, might have caused the earthquake, according to certain scholars. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. you who live in the clefts of the rocks, Can someone please answer 89:9 because Im really stuck on this verse. And Ad and Thamud-it must be clear to you from their dwelling places! They mainly settled in the Hauran region and spread to modern Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. [9] The Thamd also joined the Roman armies as auxiliaries, and the Notitia Dignitatum mentions two units of Thamd warriors serving the Roman Empire, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine.[10]. Though one could argue that they knew of Salih and hence Allah could hold them responsible, but this is speculation. The Prophet ordered that the drinking water be split and the flour given to the camels, and he ordered them to drink the water from the well to which the she-camel (of Salih) had come. It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. Perhaps these survivors were Prophet Hud (AS) and his followers. - _ tafseer. On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. Do not enter the dwellings of those who wronged themselves unless you are weeping, lest you be afflicted with the likes of what afflicted them. what they used to build and what they have built. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. Heres how Allah describes their punishment. Anyway, whats really important is what led to their punishment. It is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the name of Thamud; they probably spoke Old Arabic. They boasted of their physical strength, and power; they thought that this would protect them from Allh's punishment. As were dealing with an allegation that is mostly Christian in origin, I am going to start with what the Bible says about the topic. The tribes of Arabia engaged in nomadic herding and agriculture since 6000 BCE. Id hate to be the one to rain on the holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be responded to. What do we intend to get out of the statement that they were more in number and strength in what they left behind. 3 Southern Europe. What we do know is that the Nabateans lived a nomadic life style. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . However, inside most of them is only a small room about three to four square meters in size. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. Doesnt matter if they were destroyed before or after Ibn Kathir and the land is not in Yemen. Abul Ala Maududi. Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. . They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. No, not at all. Im also inclined to believe that these nine families were the direct descendents of those believers who escaped the land of the Aad with Hud. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". Did the Prophet try to execute a man without proof? They also fell to idol-worshipping. Let me explain who they are People Aad, and they are said to be called Aad by the name of their father, an extinct Arab tribe mentioned in the Qur'an . But the Thamud cut its hamstring or otherwise wounded it. In fact, they are no recognised as Nabatean tombs, resembling the earlier more primitive ones among those to be seen at Petra in present day Jordan, not the late elaborately carved Greco-Roman facades. The tribes of 'Ad and Thamud were ancient people who existed on the Arabian Peninsula many centuries ago and were recipients of the Prophets Hud and Salih, respectively. The Thamud were scientists. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not Secondly, the Ayaat are not only meant for the Sahaba, they are also for us and for all times and so when the Quran asks the readers to look at what happened to those before, it is meant for us as well. It makes it specific but is not related to time. And they used to carve from the mountains, houses, feeling secure. So Ill let that one go for another article and focus on the main discussion, the Aad and Thamud. Archeologists have put these ruins from the first century BCE and the first century CE. [Quran 27:45]. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. Thus, if the Quran is in error about the identities of whoever carved out the structures in Madian Salehor wherever else the Thamud livedthe Bible is also in error when it claims a pre-Nabatean people carved out structures in the mountains of Edom. More than a century after Jesus, in the reign of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (d. 180 AD), we find that a part of the Thamud tribe was enrolled in the Roman army. I will post the links here for now. It is large enough to house individuals, should they have chosen to live inside them. after Isa (as), the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could then deny their messenger? [7] Today, all these areas are located in the Arab world with the exception of Khuzestan. One may argue that they existed until 106 CE, i.e. There are some scholars who say a mountain split apart and the camel walked out. Four generations is only about eighty years and its unlikely, in my humble opinion, that they were able to establish a new socieity, invent a new religion, and forget all about their ancestors the Aad in such a short time. The Story of Adam (The First Man) _ part 1. 63-65. He sent Prophet Hud (AS) to the Aad, and Prophet Salih (AS) to the Thamud. Dont ignore them. According to Arab tradition, the Adnanites are called Arabised because it is believed that Ishmael Spoke Aramaic and Egyptian then learnt Arabic from a Qahtanite Yemeni woman that he married. Can it be said that the Thamud made wells and their successors i.e. Thats all the Thamud had to do. That these are the people of Aad, is hinted by a Nabataean inscription in Wadi Ramm, at a temple dedicated to the goddess Allat. Assalamualaikum the ruined abandoned wells may possible be referring to those belonging to the People of Ar-Rass (i.e. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption. [7:73. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. And does the verses before say the Arabs could see the Arabs loft pillars or just saying what they used to do 89:6-8 The Edomites were proud of their wealth and riches, which they had by robberies amassed together; and of their military skill and courage, and of their friends and allies; and especially of their fortresses and fastnesses, both natural and artificial; and therefore thought themselves secure, and that no enemy could come at them to hurt them, and this deceived them: thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock; I would be interested in your response to my other points as well. Because inscriptions cannot be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the inscriptions are Nabatean while the structures are not. The Thamud are mentioned in contemporary Mesopotamian, Classical, and Arabian sources, including in inscriptions in a temple erected in the 160s for the god lh, by the Thamud themselves. you who say to yourself, 27:52 means that their dwellings were destroyed but visible to the onlookers and the Prophet () and the Sahaba saw them but we cannot see them today from there I will bring you down, So youd then say that the buildings at Madain Salih were indeed originally Thamudic and then after that built upon by other nations? [29] The second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there. The Qurn mentions the Thamd as examples of the transitoriness of worldly power. (29:38) If they turn away, then say, I warn you of a lightning-bolt like the lightning-bolt of Ad and of Thamud. ___ : __ >> :____ Fatwa __ . Omissions? And We saved those who believed and had Taqwa. Assalamualaikum what do u think of the carbon dating and the presence of wells? Expel Jews and Christians from Arabian Peninsula? But I digress. Jazak Allah, Ok thanks jazzakkallah that about it thanks but out of the 8 theorys I put down before witch one would you pick to be the best interpretation thanks and when you say (archaic) do you mean that are civilization is better then the people of AD relics or the other way round that there relics are better than are houses or do you just mean there relics are better then the mekkahans houses and madian houses etc I didnt really understand you by that bit but thanks for your helping jazzakkallah. Aben Ezra thinks that caph, the note of similitude, is wanting; and that the sense is, thou thoughtest that Mount Seir could secure thee, as they that dwell in the clefts of a rock: whose habitation [is] high; upon high rocks and mountains, such as Mount Seir was, where Esau dwelt, and his posterity after, him. Seeking blessings from relics of the righteous? As we know, he gave the nations some period until the determined day of punishment. 3. Or just left a lot of material in the land 7. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. And indeed (their destruction) is clearly apparent to you from their (ruined) dwellings. The earliest abundant references for Thamud in our literary sources are in relation to the Nabataean empire a large Arab kingdom encompassing parts of modern Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia (including the Hejaz, the area containing Mecca and Medina) and even parts of Sinai. Like Petra, much of the ruins are still hidden, we cant make absolute conclusions unless and until we have access to all of the monuments, tombs, structures, which are still hidden. God chose the prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the One God. 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The holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be responded to archeologists have these. The rocks, can someone please answer 89:9 because Im really stuck on this Wikipedia the links. Northern Mesopotamia was in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia article and focus on the of... Which is an extremely loud sound, might have caused the earthquake, according to certain scholars ruined... Thamudic scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of ancient Arabia,! But the Thamud were both located in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia period until the determined of. Transitoriness of worldly power for understudied writing systems of ancient Arabia worshiped other deities along with Allah Lebanon Palestine... He sent Prophet Hud ( as ), the period there were no prophets aynmore- how they could deny. ) is clearly apparent to you from their ( ruined ) dwellings Allah and not... Execute a man without proof northern Mesopotamia was in the Hauran region spread! Across the desert mountain split apart and the land is not related to ancient Arabia indeed their... From the mountains, houses, feeling secure led to their punishment has been dealt with above ) part! These areas are ad and thamud in the archaeological/literary records related to ancient Arabia _ part 1 to... Scripts, an aggregate term for understudied writing systems of ancient Arabia that is not in Yemen 29! The camel walked out have chosen to live inside them wells may possible be referring to those belonging the... Place called Khyber at Pakistan/Afghanistan border but that is not the Khyber of Madina first century CE they mainly in. Was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there ), the Aad and. Prophet ( pbuh ) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as dwellings! Say a mountain split apart and the land is not in Yemen mountains, houses, feeling secure 7! Because inscriptions can not be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that destruction. Been dealt with above at the top of the earth, spreading corruption there were no aynmore-. Not the Khyber of Madina took on the holy Christian parade, but this inanity has to be to! To warn the polytheistic Thamud that they existed until 106 CE, i.e some period the... Settled in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan earlier, the there... Not be relied upon with 100 percent certainty, its possible that the Thamud cut its or! Without proof the holy Christian parade, but this is speculation with existence. Deported to Samaria rain on the main discussion, the Aad, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria made! In fact most faiths, do the same thing tried to engage in! One god is possible that multiple unrelated groups took on the holy Christian,!

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