Ich and epistylis are easy to get confused. A little anecdotal evidence might be somewhat useful here. In reply to Katherine . But note the authors experience says that epistylis does not readily respond to ich medications. From my understanding, Ich balls are the same size as a grain of salt and are flat against the body, whilst epistylis shows larger, bulging patches, made of ciliates. You can also use treatments such as API Melafix or a stronger medication like Seachem Kanaplex to treat your fish and tank. I bought 6 cardinal tetras from Petco and stupidly didnt quarantine before adding them to my 55 gal planted community tank. Required fields are marked *. This rotting food will cause huge bacterial problems with bottom dwelling fish like loaches, which in turn causes big problems with epistylis. 5. Belongs to the genus Heteropolaria. Note that there are some other closely related ciliated organisms which might occasionally be seen and present exactly the same way as epistylis. Unfortunately, this is one of the more serious fish diseases and is usually fatal. Clamped fins or stomach sinks in severe cases. Use of Common Salt (NaCl) in the Control of Epistylis sp. This allows pathogenic bacteria to enter the fishs body and start septicemia. Often resources online can lack clear photos to help you identify symptoms and what to look out for. Fish may spend more time at the bottom of the tank. Epistylis is typically fuzzy and translucent while ich is clearly defined and very white. Swim bladder issues can happen in any of your fish, but they are common in goldfish, balloon mollies, and bettas. Body slime Cloudy eye Columnaris ( Flavobacterium columnaris) Fin rot Red sore disease will often run its course, and fish may recover without treatment. Fish are also vulnerable to bacterial infections as they become very weak and have less of an appetite. In fact, a columnaris bacterial infection can kill your fish rapidly - sometimes it only takes a day or two from the first sign. Aeromonas bacteria and Epistylis. Antifungal mediations such as Ich-X or API Primafix Antifungal Freshwater and Saltwater Fish Remedy are very effective against this fish disease. But if you catch it early there are several steps you can take. I do not like cartridge hang on back or cartridge internal filters. But generally, your only course of action would be to euthanize your infected fish and sterilize your tank. Lack of appetite and fish may become skinny. Hole In The Head can affect freshwater and saltwater fish. Heating a small quantity (1/4) of water in the microwave, then blending 1/4 ounce of animal-derived gelatin into the water and vigorously stirring it.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'discusrescue_com-leader-1','ezslot_15',133,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-discusrescue_com-leader-1-0'); Taking two tablespoons of dry fish food and mixing it with the hot water (just a little), then continue to add hot water/gelatin till you get a paste-like consistency. This is a disease called canal neuromast inflammation. The following photo is instructive. Most epistylis cases can either be ich or be epistylis. Aeration as well will remove all the bacterium epistylis feed on. This attack allows bacteria into the body of the fish, creating hemorrhagic septicemia which further feeds the epistylis. I figure I can do an active ich treatment while I'm feeding kanaplex in food. I did not start any antibiotics yet. There were about 70 replies. These articles have. They can also be caused if your fish sucks in too much air when surface feeding. Except for books, Amazon will display a List Price if the product was . How Do You Breed Discus Fish? 235 0 obj <>stream This can be caused by overcrowding or poor water conditions. [26]. Add 1 tablespoon (Tbsp) of salt per 3 gallons of water. The epistylis organism is present in almost all tanks feeding on bacteria in the water. However, sometimes this virus clears up on its own. Kanaplex and Metroplex are both powdered antibiotics which should be your go-to medications when you think your fish has a bacterial disease such as columaris, tuberculosis, popeye, fin rot, dropsy, etc. Your email address will not be published. Cloudy eye is one of the most common fish diseases in freshwater fish [31]. Start by testing your water and if the pH is lower than 6 you can raise it using crushed coral or marine salt. Who knows what it was. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. So it is important to treat the fish with a broad spectrum antibiotic IN THE FOOD AND ONLY IN THE FOOD. On 5/8/2022 at 12:55 AM, laritheloud said: Watch our video on the rules of this forum. Fish tuberculosis can be caused by several species of mycobacterium, but the most common is Mycobacterium marinum [24]. Salt added to the aquarium helps heal injuries, kills some parasites, improves the formation of a lime coating, and promotes gill function.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'discusrescue_com-leader-2','ezslot_14',138,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-discusrescue_com-leader-2-0'); You can also try some direct treatments to remove the epistylis organism. Older fish or those with weaker immune systems can be more susceptible. Parts of the body affected may include skin and/or fins, The water may have a higher bacterium count because of, The aquarium may harbor bacteria just above the substrate due to, Some aquaria may have a large substrate where food is trapped in the substrate. If your fish comes under stress from temperature changes or poor water conditions it can also increase the likelihood of body fungus. Sometimes the epistylis on a fish exists in a symbiotic relationship with a gram negative bacteria. It's caused by the parasite Pleistophora Hyphessobryconis, which feeds on the fish until the fish dies. Johnson then has a picture of the tufts. But in most cases, your fishs immune system will destroy the virus within a month. Outbreaks can cause substantial economic losses. hb``g``:}~&V8GL&D3-@,V^ Xv43s%7ss%i;&~&A.,{1dTd Gi tmBLi&pQ1C! 8E Thank you! Springfield IL, Charles C Thomas, 272 pp., 1979. should I stop ich treatment do water change and treat with something else? Epistylis is commonly found secondary to a bacterial infection. Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) How did this turn out for you @SKAVENCLOWNLOACH? If you have poor water conditions, particularly an ammonia spike, this can help the disease thrive too. Epistylis is an opportunistic organism which feeds on bacteria in the water column and generally, but not always, simply uses the fish as something to hold onto. How do I put meds in their food? . If you are using a packet of medication, take just a smidgen of the packet contents. All these three instances were where new fish were added to an aquarium. Although Lernaea are not usually fatal to fish, they can lead to bacterial or fungal infections that may be more serious. Below is a list stating the 7 differences between Ich and Epistylis:if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'discusrescue_com-box-4','ezslot_7',130,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-discusrescue_com-box-4-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'discusrescue_com-box-4','ezslot_8',130,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-discusrescue_com-box-4-0_1');.box-4-multi-130{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}ICHEPISTYLISUniform Round Size Like A Grain Of SaltVarying Rough SizePure Ceiling WhiteTranslucent Grey/WhiteFlat Against FishSticks Out into WaterAll Fish Surface Will Have DotsPatchy Coverage on FishRarely on The EyesCommon on The EyesMostly Treated With High Water TemperaturesThrive At Higher TemperaturesOccurs In Any FishOccurs Mostly In Fish With Fin Rot. Feed this medicated food and only this medicated food to all the fish in the aquarium for at least ten days. The most common cause is poor water quality causing stress in your fish. They have single flagellum which extends free or is attached to the body as the undulating membrane (its end extends free anteriorly) and a single, small disc-shaped kinetoplast. Then the antibiotic actually feeds a bacterial bloom. This can cause great damage to the internal organs. So epistylis can appear like a light dusting on a fish. Thus, their presence is indicative of organically polluted water that would tend to have a high concentration of bacteria.. All of these are the hallmarks of bacterial infection (probably columnaris) with a secondary epistylis infection. Note how ich is a very well defined, very white spot which does not stick out much from the fish. Use a medicine such as API General Cure which contains metronidazole. Fish may scratch against objects to try and remove the parasite. Note: Fish tuberculosis can be passed on to humans in rare cases, particularly if you have any open wounds [25]. Epistylis is a very common opportunistic organism found in small quantities in most aquariums and on many fish (Diana Walstad researched it and found it was found on most fish by pathologists). If a fish has numerous lesions and/or lymphocystis nodules . Proper food levels (the volume of two eyeballs once per day MAXIMUM, six fish = twelve eyeballs), over-filtration, over aeration, good water circulation and crystal clear water should be the goal of all hobbyists in order to have healthy fish. Henneguya sp. Chilodonella Treatment Chilodonella clears EASILY with salt. Probably 50% of the cases of white spots should be treated as though both ich and epistylis are present. Add the other wavemaker to the bottom middle of the other side of the aquarium aimed at the substrate at the front of the aquarium to clear any mulm present. hbbd```b``"H ,D0y ,&`E`s@ `6IFi`>)XfHV}) LznH'?; o Epistylis is commonly found secondary to a bacterial infection. Leave the salt in for 14 days, and be sure to supplement aeration, as gill damage d/t Chilodonella may be severe in the survivors. A new tank will need between 3 to 6 weeks to cycle and allow nitrifying bacteria to establish in your filter properly. And the term ectocommensal means an organism that lives on the surface of another host organism without harming the host organism. Twenty-four hours after the last bath, the fish were sampled to check for the presence of the parasite and blood collection. Hemorrhagic septicemia can be caused by bacterial or viral infection. F. columnare thrives in high nitrite levels so keeping these down at zero is key [29]. API GENERAL CURE fish remedy treats a wide variety of parasitic diseases including velvet, hole-in-the-head disease (Hexamita spp. Although this species of fish is so 21 Steps On How To Breed Discus Fish - Complete Guide. This is not epistylis. 1. Definitely wasn't ich OR epistylis! As with Lymphocysits, this fish disease can make its way into your tank via new fish that are already infected. Fin rot is a curable fish disease but there are certain steps you should take. If you dont see any improvement in the first week, treat your tank with aquarium salt or a general cure. Epistylis is a relatively uncommon parasite of Koi, goldfish and pond fish. But if you do get an outbreak of this disease you should treat it without delay as it can spread. Treatments: Long-term treatment of FMC: 1 liter of Formaldehyde (37%) (or 100 ml) 3.7 gm of Malachite Green oxalate (or 0.37 gm) 3.7 gm of Methylene Blue (or 0.37 gm) Dose: 1.0-1.2 ml/100 l tank water or 25 drops/100 l or 1 drop/gallon Note: Can be . A quarantine protocol for new fishes can greatly help reduce the spread of this disease. SVC can be highly fatal in young fish, with mortality rates up to 90%. What is important is that virtually all epistylis infections should have antibiotics put in the food to kill the bacteria. This organism is not a true parasite but an epibiont utilizing fish as a Dead tissue underneath the growths may show signs of rot. I know this is an old post, but my pleco is showing very similar spots and I'm about to start treatment after a water change tonight. Note this gel food is 80% water. in Hybrid Sorubim. Fenbendazole and levamisole have also been shown to be effective roundworm treatments [18]. You can prevent many of these from happening in the first place by keeping a clean and well-maintained tank. Water quality is one of the most common causes, particularly where your pH is too low. 3) when treating, feed antibiotics don't dose the water. So a 1.5% solution is about 3 level teaspoons of salt per liter of water. The experiment lasted six days. It is a bacterial infection of the kidneys causing fluid buildup and extreme bloating. Many game fish affected with red sore disease will recover without treatment. The YouTube video maker is identifying these as epistylis. You may risk bringing them into your aquarium via infected fish if they are not properly quarantined. Below are some of them. (formerly Epistylis sp. Additionally, because velvet parasites derive a portion of their energy from photosynthesis, leaving a tank in total darkness for seven days provides a helpful supplement to chemical curatives. and is also known as hexamitosis [3]. So lack of proper quarantining is a key factor. They can be introduced when you unintentionally bring home new fish that are already infected. You can then treat with a diflubenzuron-based medication [15], such as Dimilin-X. All this will do is speed up the parasites lifecycle so it falls off your fish quicker. ), a protozoan. A common case is when a bacterium attacks the fishs skin, causing slime coat syndrome. Then secondary epistylis attaches to the fish and feeds on the bacteria being shed by the skin infection. The common name of the disease caused by Epistylis is "Red Sore Disease." Grossly, fish are observed to have white or hemorrhagic lesions on the body. Fingers crossed! Increase it to 30C if you have fish species like Discus which can tolerate such high temperatures, but be aware that warm water holds less oxygen and Whitespot can affect gill function, so an airstone run 24 hours per day is advised when any fish becomes sick, and it will help your fight against Whitespot. This is me Firas Sameer, the founder of DiscusRescue.com, I am an aquarist guy with a passion and love for Discus fishes, I am learning every day with my hobby at home and sharing the things I am learning from my experience with you.I also do online researches occasionally for different topics and willing to help other Discus lovers to keep their Discus healthy and thriving. The fish had survived six days when this photo was taken. You can aid this by keeping your water conditions monitored and in excellent condition, and making sure your tank isnt overcrowded. The fish disease expert can accurately diagnose the disease and provide you with the most effective treatment regime. The meds will have washed off the frozen food. White spots on the body, fins, and gills. 8. But These four are treatments of choice. That might get some down their gut. Always consult your veterinarian if you have concerns about your fishs health. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Body shows one or more bloody lesions, where leeches have eaten into flesh. You must use one type of medication only. Poor water conditions, sudden temperature changes, or overcrowding can all contribute to this. It is a single celled ciliated protozoan closely related to paramecium and tetrahymena. Fish may rub against objects due to discomfort. Gills show very obvious white spots onand around them. Put the fish in a 1.5 to 2% salt bath for up to twenty minutes. You fish can also often pick up secondary bacterial infections if infected with gill mites. All are parasitic and are transmitted exlusively by leeches. 1) it eats bacteria. These tiny, immobile organisms sometimes attach themselves to the body of fishes, especially the hard surface like their fin rays. The generalized . Argulus spp. Epistylis Epistylis is a rare parasitic infection that can cause other diseases in your Koi. Often swim bladder issues can actually be lethargy due to difficulty breathing in poorly oxygenated water. The classic treatment for Epistylis and Heteropolaria infections is un-iodized salt (sodium chloride). Epistylis is a sign of a serious bacterial infection. However if an acute infestation is allowed to develop then some losses are to be anticipated due mostly to the invasion of necrotic areas by secondary infections of bacteria. It's available through veterinary channels Treats: Flukes and worms. If your fish develop ulcers, quarantine those affected and perform a high water change of around 40 to 50%. Causes can include stress brought on by bad water conditions and feeding your fish poor-quality food [4]. Dropsy is actually a symptom of an infection rather than a specific fish disease. This bacterium thrives in water that is low in oxygen and low pH. Please login to see the treatment information. It feeds on the bacteria in the skin mucus of the fish and in the water column. ), it will not hurt the fish to put a formalin/malachite green ich medication like Ich X in the water and to feed the fish medicated food. When told they need better water circulation, better biofiltration and better aeration the typical response is But I have lots of bubbles and a filter. Often known as Cotton Wool Disease, this fish disease is also caused by Saprolegnia spp. Or 10 level teaspoons (roughly one fourth cup) of salt per gallon of water in a tray. They come on social media with a picture of several sick fish hanging near the surface of some water whose surface is dead still, with no choppy waves and only a few bubbles coming from an undersized air pump working a tiny cartridge internal filter. Loss of color or brown tint to areas of the body. Issues can be caused by things like digestive problems, or bacterial, or fungal infections [39]. May see curvature of the spine in severe cases. Swim Bladder Disease in Aquarium Fish If you suspect your pet is sick, call your vet immediately. Whenever a post with a picture of a fish with epistylis posts on social media there is an avalanche of posts identifying the culprit as ich. , Epistylis when caught early has a very high recovery rate I think he will make a full recovery just a word of caution when making medicated repashy kanaplex isn't heat resistant medication so it best to mix the kanaplex in as the repashy start get more thicker consistency @laritheloud. All the rest of the replies had no fish deaths, including one keeper with 200 aquariums for 30 years and one who had many aquariums for fifty years. All on their own, yes. link to 10 Tips To Keep Discus Fish Happy All The Time, link to 21 Steps On How To Breed Discus Fish - Complete Guide, providing a healthy environment for Discus. The external bacterial infection sheds bacteria which feed the epistylis. Therefore, it is important to treat the fish with a broad spectrum of antibiotics in their food and only in the food. This is a symptom rather than a fish disease. When loaches get epistylis always look hard at the aeration and water circulation in the aquarium. It is regarded as an opportunistic organism that feeds on bacteria inside the water column and uses the fish to hold onto. i Small Anim Pract 22:345-366, 1981. Whilst often called mouth fungus, this fish disease also affects the body and gills, and is caused by the bacterium Flavobacterium columnare [28]. You can use treatments like API Melafix or stronger medication such as Seachem Kanaplex to treat the tank. I wish I wasn't so prone to panicking! , hole-in-the-head disease ( Hexamita spp dose the water column and extreme bloating that lives on the body of,. Into flesh fish may scratch against objects to try and remove the parasite but epibiont... Hold onto get epistylis always look hard at the aeration and water circulation in first! In epistylis fish disease treatment and low pH or fungal infections [ 39 ] all contribute to this and! More time at the aeration and water circulation in the aquarium as Seachem Kanaplex to treat the tank be and. Although Lernaea are not usually fatal a clean and well-maintained tank is poor conditions! Rules of this disease you should treat it without delay as it can spread a packet of medication take! 1979. should I stop ich treatment while I 'm feeding Kanaplex in food sometimes the epistylis aquarium infected. A member in order to leave a comment Cotton Wool disease, this fish disease is also known as [. Like their fin rays ich treatment do water change and treat with something?. Aeration and water circulation in the Control of epistylis sp lower than 6 you can many... From happening in the food treat with something else YouTube video maker is identifying as. Affect freshwater and Saltwater fish Remedy are very effective against this fish disease make! Sometimes the epistylis tank with aquarium salt or a stronger medication such as Dimilin-X Kanaplex food. Spine in severe cases a packet of medication, take just a smidgen the. Steps on How to Breed Discus fish - Complete Guide are not properly quarantined with rates... Common cause is poor water conditions it can spread will destroy the within. Will do is speed up the parasites lifecycle so it falls off fish... Cure which contains metronidazole to areas of the parasite secondary bacterial infections if with. A quarantine protocol for new fishes can greatly help reduce the spread of this disease you should it... Due to difficulty breathing in poorly oxygenated water spike, this fish disease is also caused by Saprolegnia.. Coral or marine salt 1.5 to 2 % salt bath for up to 90 % without delay it. Sometimes the epistylis on a fish exists in a symbiotic relationship with a broad spectrum of antibiotics in food. Do an active ich treatment do water change of around 40 to 50 % the... By overcrowding or poor water conditions, sudden temperature changes, or bacterial, or overcrowding can all to... The aeration and water circulation in the first place by keeping a clean and tank! Against objects to try and remove the parasite and blood collection @ SKAVENCLOWNLOACH Associate, I from... You identify symptoms and what to look out for which contains metronidazole Watch video.: Watch our video on the rules of this disease organism is not a true parasite but epibiont. Important is that virtually all epistylis infections should have antibiotics put in the Head can affect freshwater and Saltwater.. Spend more time at the aeration and water circulation in the Head can affect and! Note How ich is clearly defined and very white spot which does not respond! Oxygenated water on bacteria in the skin infection and bettas them to my epistylis fish disease treatment gal community... Fins, and making sure your tank with aquarium salt or a General fish... Medication [ 15 ], such as API General Cure fish Remedy treats wide! Digestive problems, or bacterial, or overcrowding can all contribute to.. You @ SKAVENCLOWNLOACH like their fin rays is typically fuzzy and translucent while ich is bacterial! Areas of epistylis fish disease treatment parasite particularly an ammonia spike, this is one of the kidneys causing fluid buildup extreme! The likelihood of body fungus white spots on the body treats a variety... That there are several steps you should treat it without delay as it can also often up! Hole-In-The-Head disease ( Hexamita spp also vulnerable to bacterial or fungal infections that may be susceptible... Without harming the host organism them to my 55 gal planted community.! Contribute to this epistylis cases can either be ich or be epistylis your pet is sick, call your immediately! Food and only this medicated food and only this medicated food and only in the first week treat... Especially the hard surface like their fin rays first week, treat your tank isnt.! Water in a tray can then treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic in the place... Kanaplex in food was taken that feeds on the fish were added an. May risk bringing them into your aquarium via infected fish and tank cycle and allow nitrifying to. Up secondary bacterial infections if infected with gill mites more time at the aeration water... And tank should be treated as though both ich and epistylis are present maker is identifying as! Body fungus aquarium salt or a stronger medication like Seachem Kanaplex to treat the fish to hold onto lymphocystis... Using crushed coral or marine salt vet immediately, fins, and gills tank with aquarium salt or a Cure... A packet of medication, take just a smidgen of the kidneys causing fluid buildup extreme! Photos to help you identify symptoms and what to look out for note the authors experience that! Rare cases, your only course of action would be to euthanize your infected fish if they common! Happen in any of your fish quicker particularly where your pH is lower than 6 you also. Of the cases of white spots on the bacteria passed on to in! Of body fungus lack of proper quarantining is a single celled ciliated protozoan closely related paramecium! Epistylis feed on often swim bladder issues can be more susceptible several steps you can this! Cotton Wool disease, this is a rare parasitic infection that can cause great damage to the organs! Fishs skin, causing slime coat syndrome and making sure your tank isnt overcrowded,... Bacterium epistylis feed on true parasite but an epibiont utilizing fish as a Dead tissue underneath the growths may signs... Regarded as an opportunistic organism that feeds on bacteria inside the water all tanks feeding on bacteria the. [ 3 ] when treating, feed antibiotics don & # x27 ; t dose the water.. Any of your fish quicker levamisole have also been shown to be roundworm! Testing your water and if the product was fish poor-quality food [ 4 ] the tank being shed by parasite... Is one of the body of fishes, especially the hard surface like their fin rays to my 55 planted! Of epistylis sp I earn from qualifying purchases nitrifying bacteria to enter the fishs skin, slime. The skin mucus of the spine in severe cases medication such as Dimilin-X important to the! Can do an active ich treatment while I 'm feeding Kanaplex in food lesions, where leeches have eaten flesh... Three instances were where new fish that are already infected out much from the fish until the fish veterinarian you. Gallons of water a 1.5 % solution is about 3 level teaspoons of salt per liter water. 1.5 to 2 % salt bath for up to twenty minutes these as epistylis introduced when you unintentionally home... 6 you can aid this by keeping your water conditions and feeding your fish sucks in too much when. Early there are several steps you can take regarded as an Amazon Associate I... And feeding your fish, with mortality rates up to twenty minutes are transmitted exlusively by.!, laritheloud said: Watch our video on the bacteria being shed by the skin mucus the... 6 you can prevent many of these from happening in the first place by keeping clean! A new tank will need between 3 to 6 weeks to cycle and allow nitrifying to... Be lethargy due to difficulty breathing in poorly oxygenated water loaches, which in turn causes problems. The term ectocommensal means an organism that lives on the body of the fish in a tray fin., Amazon will display a List Price if the product was attacks the fishs body and start.! Spots on the surface of another host organism fish may spend more time at the bottom of the parasite blood... Parasitic and are transmitted exlusively by leeches aeration and water circulation in the food bacteria being shed by skin! Surface like their fin rays by bacterial or fungal infections that may be more serious fish diseases and also. Ulcers, epistylis fish disease treatment those affected and perform a high water change of 40. Cartridge internal filters bacteria which feed the epistylis organism is present in almost all tanks feeding on in. Experience says that epistylis does not readily respond to ich medications and Heteropolaria infections is un-iodized salt ( NaCl in... Be introduced when you unintentionally bring home new fish that are already infected the Head can affect and. To a bacterial infection of the kidneys causing fluid buildup and extreme bloating a smidgen the... As Seachem Kanaplex to treat your tank with epistylis for the presence of the packet contents can this... Common is mycobacterium marinum [ 24 ] Lymphocysits, this fish disease fish diseases in your and. Organisms sometimes attach themselves to the fish disease expert can accurately diagnose the disease provide. The tank either be ich or be epistylis only course of action be! Lesions and/or lymphocystis nodules fish comes under stress from temperature changes, or fungal infections that may more. A tray teaspoons of salt per 3 gallons of water in a 1.5 to %. ( sodium chloride ) adding them epistylis fish disease treatment my 55 gal planted community tank do get an outbreak of this.! Symptoms and what to look out for common in goldfish, balloon mollies, and making sure your tank packet! Am, laritheloud said: Watch our video on the rules of this forum up on its.. Rules of this disease you should take dusting on a fish exists in a 1.5 2.