Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. Every believer has a part! Having the equipment available to produce, record, and stream the services completely online, Harvest was able to continue to preach Gods Word unapologetically and worship unashamedly. Hall, Ive been consistent here and elsewhere under another net handle and under my actual name that I dont think the guys up to any good at all, either years ago or now. Giving is another way we worship Him and it allows us to demonstrate that He is more important to us than material things. You need to stop looking at yourself as a victim and a good guy and admit that you are the neo-Pharisee that you really are. in talking with my octogenarian missionary-kid dad, i hear words like the heathen (it makes me sick, yet i love him with all my heart and soul). In addition to the institutional realities in the Gentile churches that we can read about in the early post-biblical literature, we have Pauls guidelines and, IMO above all his vision of one-another relationship within the churches. Or maybe its the era of the Judges, when every man did what was right in his own sight.. ++++++++++++++++++++. Im working with a couple of other groups and IMO progress is being made. In full disclosure, not even a full prof or anything big, just a lecturerand a snarky middle aged guy who was such a great lawyer I had to get a job teaching to make a living. I REMEMBER STORIES OF FREAKOUTS AND LONG-TERM TERROR REACTIONS FROM CHURCH SCREENINGS OF THIEF IN THE NIGHT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM DOING THE SAME TO YOUNGER KIDS WITH PASSION OF THE CHRIST? Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Too bad he doesnt understand that it can be used just as much for good as it can be for bad. Its actually pretty simple to pick out the false ones. Ive tried to leave TWW twice to go fishing or something, but my fans urged me to stay. All this, with the goal of getting me, my family and the Executive Elders removed ," MacDonald wrote. of good testimony with those who are outside (non-Christian) And what is love? But as long as theres sin, there will be plenty of work to do to shine a light in the dark places of Christendom. this time facilatated by the internet, just like the last one was with the printing press.. Well, age doesnt always equal wisdom, but it helps! How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. He didnt. Confession is good for the soul. Wow. Thats all it takes, my friend. They deliberately employ a faulty theology to ensnare and use others for their own ends. You were front and center and even after that you chose to insert yourself into the middle thinking you could be the fixer. Its your choiceAnonymity is not the same thing as cowardice, but thanks so much for playing that tired old game. You participated in making what is now a public mockery (an absurd misrepresentation) of the holy the gospel of Jesus Christ. Kind of clueless about it, obviously, because you act like think youre making a trenchant point. Informacin detallada del sitio web y la empresa: cscdluquillo.com, +17878893488, +17875205223, +19547634027, +12012041300, +12012081024 Christian School and Chapel for the Deaf | Puerto Rico Its obvious that theres not enough scintilla of evidence to convict most of them of being Christian. Our youngest daughter, Leah was married this week to Alexei, a wonderful young man! Your support is what helps bring hope, and is a large part of the reason I chose to comment here at TWW. I will reflect on your honesty and embrace the possibilities. Im sure it depends on the setting and the ministry of the church. DallasHow selfishIs it all about you?Or, is your statement for the greater good of countless others? Concerned for the vulnerable animals safety, he left his own gun by its side. Beware! EPISKOPOS, translated in English is an overseer or a bishop. In celebration, we hosted Summer Revival at our Elgin campus. The office of an elder is not to be taken lightly. Every weekend we open the word of God and study the truth He has revealed to us. Christ gave Himself for His people and that kind of sacrificial self-giving love was meant to be characteristic of those who stood in Christs place in offices of authority in the churches. I just think some people do not care one tiny little bit about what the Lord said. it must be protected. I hope that brings you some hope and encouragement today. I understand your point and the historical information. WHERE TO FIND US. So I come here to learn, share solace and insights, and tell the odd bear joke. Let the truth flow. Yeah, thats it self-esteem. MacDonald gave Mark Driscoll $50,000? Nice list. After the scene, which seemed to drag on and on, pastor walked to the podium and with that quivery, dramatic pastor voice. that exploited the greater public, as well, if you consider how they subsidized the tax-free advantages of Harvest Bible Chapel and its staff. Throughout the many posts, including this one, there has been some balance and at least an appearance to be open for discussion, albeit without original proof. If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit. True. elastigirl: Honest question: why does it matter what Paul thinks? The only church Fred has ever worked for his Harvest. Dallas, however, prefers a different medium film. Thank you for your insights. He is best known as the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, the first multi-season series about the life of Jesus of Nazareth.. Jenkins's career is focused on faith-based media. My hands STILL shake as I write this the culture was rampant with fear, control and utter mismanagement my archived emails attest to it. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. But how long, under the sort of behavior he and others depict, can one be excused for overlooking the facts? So this notion of a pastor as single leader being completely made up well after the Bible was written, simply not biblical at all, purely cultural tradition, I think youd be safe to say that said book most certainly does not indicate that one assuming an unbiblical, made-up official office does not need to be heeded, but rather corrected, censured or even disciplined and thrown out of the church for their audacity and biblical ignorance. Many will say to Me on that day when I judge them, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name? And then I will declare to them publicly, I never knew you; depart from Me, you are banished from My presence, you who act wickedly disregarding My commands. (Matthew 7:21-23). Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. The way back: 2 Chronicles 7:14 but I dont see much movement in that direction. Cudos for your honesty. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. From all the people I know in those churches, I think thats exactly what happens! The time for half measures is over. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers. Whats chilling is you can still see the cult hold harvest has on him and others as he desribes his felling in the beginning of the letter. Jeff Chalmers Ken F (aka Tweed): I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. That is such a terrible alternative that its not hard to imagine that people could be willing to engage in all kinds of objectively evil things sin in order to avert that outcome. ex HCA Staff: . It obviously took courage for you to write it. Wow. We find out that the pastor is living in a $2 million house, he said. birdoftheair: Size, style, structure, statements, staff..have not guaranteed us safe and healthy churches. I hope you do for your own sake so you do not end up like the Pharisees that Jesus plainly stated were headed straight to an eternity in hell. Our goals in writing these letters were accomplished, and its unfortunate that people are making them public. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. The history of church offices is a bit more complicated. It seems that this website is a place where nobodys can act in Gods place as judge and jury. We see in Scripture the importance placed upon the need to have elders. I am sorry that my concerns about the institutional church from day one cause you distress. God will not, will not let you go. If church leaders throughout Christendom wont take a stand to expose wayward peers and rebuke their ministry endeavors, it will be up to the pew to do this important task to inform and warn others in the Body of Christ to beware. This hits the nail on the head. theres a massive problem with the deference thats given but the level of deference given to pastors is completely unhealthy and all because a book kind of indicates that they need to be heeded. Max: Friend: What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. This was a guy who was lauded before thousands each week on the stage, promoted on a national radio program, spread his influence through 18 books. The days of intermediaries are over, and we all have access to the very Spirit of God to lead us personally as he desires us to go. So be careful, dont shoot before you think. I read that as a statement, not a post open for discussion, and an appeal to stop the speculation and kibitzing over a tragic situation. After six months exclusively online, we returned to in person services in September 2020. You see, the symbolic meaning of harvest in Scripture encompasses two main areas: God's provision for us and God's blessing for others. Like it or not thats whats happening. We have seen through the falsity of that which proclaims itself the infallible voice of God. That was 30 years ago and it proved to be true. Dallas Jenkins says his wife has a say in the made up/added in bible stories. We want proof, not opinion, so we can weed out the arrogance from others who believe they know best and will determine what the rest should think and believe. Harvest CEO J Scott Milholland, was one of the men who was responsible for the $10M year secret Black Fund which was used to grossly enrich the top 20 execs at Harvest (including Dallas Jenkins). Church, this is good advice for all of us! And you have the same right as the rest of us to post anonymously. I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. Max: That clearly does not describe James MacDonald and HBC elders who are coming forth one at a time to confess their roles in the great deception in Chicago. well, there will be more when parts of a belief system dont stand up to reality, its totally bewildering, [theres a word for what im feeling.it escapes me. TS00: Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. Dallas, I want to also say in all gentleness- I know youd like to be in control but you cant be. It is the internal nagging I have following Dees post on Friday about JD Hall and Braxton Caner. Dallas Jenkins: It was leaked. I guess the other 25% are hoping to get some plum positions. Frankly, your only decent, reasonable response here shouldve been to say to the public as represented on TWW: Sorry, guys, I shouldve made this public sooner. BTW, off topic, yall, but would appreciate prayers for my 94-year-old FIL, who apparently has just days (or even hours) to live. Max: This is why I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the Truth. you mention they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff?. What we have is countless people cutting him some slack . No more law-keeping. LLS, honest question in all of these elder rule setups Ive ever seen, there is no mechanism at all for pew peons to do as you note and hold elders accountable for anything. Thats not the same as authoritarian of course but there are lots of verses warning against such behaviour and other selfish motives. We started as a group of 18 people, who gathered from five different churches across the northwest suburbs and desired to form a new church. Clevin: Does anyone have examples of big churches that are emblems of integrity? Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. They arent slated to start until May, and the people who have heard about it are begging him to start it sooner. Churches that are run like cults do not encourage true friendships. The neocalvinist church where I was an elder, which started off without one big head leader who called himself pastor, and people generally treating people decently, lasted a year or so before the guys found this amazing, godly 5-point calvinist whod been on John MacArthurs staff at GCC and had been a leader in SGMand then he took over and then he brought in his right-hand man from another state to be the leader of the elder team and then those two decided that the elders in place had been given too much unbiblical power over the pastor and so we all had to cede all authority to him and just be good friends without all these unbiblical checks and balances on the man whom the Lord had hand-picked to be over us. ex HCA Staff: (Stacey Wescott/Chicago Tribune/TNS. The NT clearly outlines the positive attributes I am talking about.. Having re-read the letter a few times now I find it to be more of a CYA document than anything else. In April 2016, Harvest acquired a permanent church facility in Aurora to allow the Aurora Campus to continue to grow, both in number and effectiveness in reaching people for Christ. There is no such thing as a single pastor leader role that even exists. I know we have to hunt to keep down the population of wild creatures, especially in areas where they dont have any natural predators, so they dont destroy the environment and/or starve. Ishy: Noevangelical: So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Amy Moore, With 17+ degree options, we have something for everyone. You have also put a few of the people fighting for the cause of God change through the ringer with some of your comments to them on twitter fb. They want the best, and so does God. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. They taught 200 pastors how to create a stronger choke-hold on their church so that no one can wrestle it away from them. It was leaked. Unless it was a danger to someone. Milholland did this exact same thing at his former church, Hope Church in Memphis. Vincent: It seems that this website is a place where nobodys can act in Gods place as judge and jury. generous. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. I believe if Jesus was here today, He would be sitting around the campfire drinking beer with the boys! Max responding properly (thats all I will say). Sunday services, weekly small groups, other events all give meaning to peoples lonely lives, and the rest is mostly fluff. The Chosen is similar to Risen, the excellent faith -based film that . A lot of people still hurt. Zero current power holders at Willow Creek Community Church have uttered a single word condemning the sexual crimes of founder and 42 year leader Bill Hybels. My writing partner (the burned-out preacher) described it as the best movie I dont ever want to see again. Which direction you take religion or relationship determines whether you discover Truth or not. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. TS00: What will it take to make him accountable for at least the dollars, which should be somewhat trackable? Imagine the chaos if we all put our full names out there, along with the names of our (former) churches and the various miscreants, lay and ordained, living and dead, who assaulted and extorted us over the decades. As usual, your comments and insight are on the money, Amy Moore. 20 years for me. dee: Its like dj vu all over again. -Yogi Berra, When you come to a fork in the road, take it. -Yogi Berra. You state things so well that there is little to no need to add anything. Dallas was complicit in this, and hes still complicit in attempting to hide the truth. And theres a high likelihood this statement will get them expelled.. We all know that Gateways Crisis Manager Lawrence Swicegood is helming the 2020 Committee, so this is not surprising. Dallas, you helped run an organization that prospered because of its public image which you helped create. Sovereign Grace Ministries Theres a difference between people who hunt professionally for a living, indigenous hunters who hunt as part of their tribal culture, and rich guys like James McDonald who do it to knock another item off their bucket list. I know some people will disagree with me, but thats just my opinion. The Bible says that one of the top competitors for our commitment to Jesus is money (Matthew 6:4). If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Im going to the training for it in a few weeks. One church on six campuses serving together in this purpose: to glorify God and fulfill the Great Commission! The Bible is clear that all people are God's creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), but only those who have faith (trust) in the work of Jesus are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10). Every jot and every tittle is just as if the Almighty is still thundering out of Horeb through Paul. Amy Moore. Many do not seek truth, but whatever best tickles their ears. As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? Crony to cronyand I hear you and see it all the timebut to me? But I still hold to my opinions, and consider them at least worthy of consideration for those who look at this mess and wonder how we got here. After seven years, the growing congregation of 500 raised funds in six weeks to secure a former warehouse at 800 S Rohlwing Road in Rolling Meadows. For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. ChurchOne App . Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. and a Pastor. Good Lord, how does that happen?! Dallas Jenkins: There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Now they want it back. He was a cynical grandstands and shameless self-promoter. Some might even suggest it seems suspiciously tied to new disclosures concerning films he made, gambling issues which have also concerned both Dallas and his father, etc. Samuel Conner: people who were being abused, manipulated, fleeced here under the sun, but who nevertheless were hearing the gospel (as they understood gospel), even though it looks to us like it was being preached from false motives. Oh, I probably am too self-righteous or self-centered or something. I had a churchgoer tell me once in a Bible Study to Lighten up Max. Debby: Check out the Stronger Mens Conference said THATS what Jesus did for YOU!. 4107 N Steele Blvd. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. The following is an extract from LookinguntoJesus.net, Presbuterous, Episkopos & Poimen We all know who to go to who can explain the meaning of a passage with more insight than anyone else. Are we any better? If such practices exist, someone needs to out them once and for all, rather than making elusive statements about the culture of fear. I will admit I now find it kind of shocking that a guy who never knew Jesus in life could muscle his way in and call himself an apostle among the other apostles. These snakes congregate in the pit together! Ive got to process that letter. The elders would tell people to leave quietly in order to *protect their family. After much review, prayer, and discussion before the Lord, the Elders of Harvest Bible Chapel released Pastor James MacDonald from his position as Senior Pastor and Elder of the church in February 2019. trust God and not your own self. God looks lovingly upon your confusion and pain, and wants nothing more than for you to find and know him as he truly is, apart from all of the hypocrisy and falsity that parades as the institutional church. We got the heck out and it took us a couple of years to find our way to the Lutheran church. Behind him, an ancient city unfurled. I envision a paradigm shift in the way we do church in America. (although unnecessary according to ECFA standards).. 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